Hi all,

I am supposed to do a trade in the US in Allentown, with an American
(my 1952 Gottlieb Crossroads project, against his 1980 Bally Space Invaders project pin).

Now, I have heard that the US customs are pickier with import stuff, including pinballs,
when it is to be sold or traded. Although the machine has limited as-is value ($200-$400 cdn).

Are there any paperwork I need to try to get first?
(I am not interested in lying to customs officers - no point).

Anyone has tips, guidance or experience in such deal?

Thank you,
- Sylvain.

I've delivered 3 pins and a juke on 3 separate trips to Buffalo without any hassle at all.  They ask what I've got, where I'm going and what I'm doing, tell the truth and they've always waived me through.  Now I'm sure that's not the correct way to legally bring a pin into the US for trade / sale, but I've never had an issue.

D

I ran into issues with TAF going down on a trade and this is what I was told at the border that made sense.

Technically it's the buyers responsibility to pay for what ever charges they deem applicable for his or her state (taxes). If the machine is made in the U.S. then there is no duty to import. They want those charges from you though and don't leave it to the buyer when he/she gets it to pay them.

They got really touchy about the issue of whether or not I was bringing the game down to sell to profit from i.e. as a business. I assume there are some export implications if your running stuff down under the guise of a business but fortunately this wasn't the case but they asked several times. Don't know how they would have handled the situation if I was an exporter since we never went down that road.

In the end I told them the absolute truth that it was a trade. I was unwilling to pay the tax on the basis that I wasn't 100% certain the trade would go through and was willing to turn my car around at the border vice pay the guys taxes on the basis I may not even trade.

They elected to not have me pay the tax and said to remind the buyer he had to pay it. I am sure he ran right down and submitted his tax right after I left. .

So yes you could be into paying something for the recipient of the machine and then paying on the way back for your machine. In a perfect world to cover all bases your buyer should send you the taxes he should be paying for you to remit for him at the border.

Now if your taking anything down that your going to bring back up get a green card for it at the border and keep this in a really safe place so you don't ever lose it once your down there. This is for items taken down for shows that will be coming back home with you....

Sylvain:  Stop au douanes canadienne et dis que tu l'amene au show pis que tu va la ramener .... il vont te faire remplir une tite feuille, montre ca au douaniers USA pis le tour est jouer

C ' est pas la même situation , mais je suis allé chercher ma centaur à Glens Falls . Elle est fonctionnelle , mais définitivement quand même un projet . Le vendeur m ' a fait un papier comme de quoi qu ' il me l ' a vendu pour $100.00 as is . Au retour , les douaniers m ' ont demandés où j ' avait eu le contact . J ' ai répondu sur le net . Il m ' a demandé si c ' était sur ebay , j ' ai dis non , que c ' était sur un site de machines à boule . Il m ' a dis que la prochaine fois, d ' imprimer l ' annonce comme preuve . Ils m 'ont ensuite tassés pour une fouille de routine , vue que je suis entré à 10hres AM et sorti à 2 hres PM . Donc , si le deal c ' est fait via internet , imprime les arrangements comme preuve de bonne foi ...

Not sure I follow your description, Glen. Maybe it's too early and not enough coffee for me plus I still have this damn cold. I was under the impression, we need to pay the taxes on the game we bring back? As you mention, the game going there is duty free. Is that not the case?

Duane

All I know Duane is they wanted me to pay tax on my TAF going down to Michigan. I assume it was going to be state tax. The buyer is responsible but if your the man driving it down through the border then they are going to hit you up and not take their chances that the buyer is going to look after it.

Ok.. keep in mind I'm not a US Broker..

When you take something into the US, the US can request for you to fill out a formal declaration, and pay the fees associated with importing the pin into the US.  They have a nice exemption for $200 US though, and the value of this pin is $200, so you should be ok. When you go down, make sure that you have the guys complete name, address, and a phone number.  Include the details (written) between you and him.  Prior to going into the US /Crossing the border stop in at Canada Customs, and get a green card for the pin. The green card is proof that the pinball was in Canada. (If there is anything that goes wrong, you want proof that the pin was in Canada so CBSA (canada customs) doesn't say "prove it".)  This is also handy as when you come back with the new pin, and the paperwork that says you swapped them, they *may* allow you to come back in with that pin tax exempt. (But they don't have to).  
When coming back, if its over your exempted limit, fork over the 13% PST/GST (into Ontario).

To Summarize:

Going TO the U.S.

- MAY (but probably not ) have to pay the state's retail tax on behalf of the potential buyer or trader of your pin
- DO NOT have to pay any duty since pin was made in U.S.
- SHOULD get green card for the pin in case your trade/sale does not go through

Coming back from U.S.

- DO NOT pay any duty on U.S. made pins coming back, no matter how they were acquired
- MAY have to pay 13% PST/GST depending on how long you were away, value of newly acquired pin and most importantly, the mood of the customs officer !

Did I get it right ??

Ok...

Going down - GET A GREEN CARD.

*IF* the unit was made in the US, going into the US you won't have to pay duty on it.

As the value of the pin is negligible (by US Customs standards - $200 US), they should just wave you through, as you have *already* sold it, and are not taking it down on the premise that it is hopefully going to be sold down there.  You aren't conducting business per se in the US, the unit is already sold.

Have complete information on the buyer in the US, Name, address, and a daytime phone number that US customs can call to verify.
Inform the purchaser that IF you are to incur any customs fees, that they will pay them for you, when you deliver the pin.

If you take down say a $1000 pin, be prepared to provide the full paperwork needed, as its over their limit. You may have to pay the taxes to get it in. Always have an agreement with the purchaser to have any customs amounts reimbursed.


-----------------
Coming Back
If you come back with the same pin, flash the green card, and you're done.

If you come back with a pin that you traded, you will have to pay 13% PST/GST - The machine is duty free (even from a non us country). You can claim "but officer, I traded" and show him the green card, at the pillbooth (the box they first talk to you), he may accept that, and not give a crap.  Inside the customs building, you will have to pay as they follow the rules.

Any pin coming into Canada is duty free.  Pinball parts *ARE NOT*. It depends on what the part is.

Thanks all !

- Sylvain.

The magic number is $2000 , after $2000 THEY DONT CARE WHAT YOUR STORY IS ITS A COMMERCIAL SHIPMENT , i learned this the hard way , coming back its easy just taxes owing.