While us old farts might be dismissive of Avatar, we need to realize that it is enormous. It's huge, gigantic, and a game changer. It has the potential to be the next Star Wars in terms of franchise strength over time. Whether that translates into pin sales, I'm skeptical. Avatar could be a flash in the pan, but so far it doesn't look that way. Sure, it did gangbusters in theatres but that's because it was 3D right? Well, it comes out on DVD/Bluray and even though it was 2D it breaks sales records, in a time when disc sales are going down the tubes.

Quoted from machine.slave

I still maintain that Avatar was a 3D tech demo, nothing more.

I'm still looking forward to trying the pin though, I'm just thankful there's still a company out there putting them out.  Yes, the cheapening of the manufacturing process has me a little discouraged, but like Adam pointed out.. nothing affecting gameplay really.  Games are back to relying on design, and not flashy toys.. that's a step in the right direction if you ask me!

The pegs don't bother me much.. though I've never experienced them myself, i always work on the pf at 90 degrees so no biggie for me.  

As far as "pins being a waste of money at this point", I've always thought a NIB pin was a waste of dough regardless of the title.. I just can't drop $2k to be the first to open the box.   That being said, I can totally respect someone else' opinion on that.  It's just not for me.

It's like getting a new car.  Pinnacle moment to be the first one to play a game on it.  I know it cost more to do it but if the game is a keeper then why worry about the extra money.  Warrenty has something to do with it also since most people do not know how to fix them.

Quoted from Vengeance

You know what's funny to me....

The guys that seem to b**** the most about Stern quality are the ones that either A) don't own any or B) have never even bought a NIB game....

Yep. Your right we all make choices in life and on the first count that is totally a function of chioce. On point "B)" unfortunately Williams isn't building any NIB games so other than paying a ridiculously inflated price for a Williams still in it's cardboard encasement, NIB hasn't presented itself as a viaible option to me in the last 10 years.

It isn't a function of not willing to pay the money for a pin as evidenced by what I have sunk into pins; it's not willing to pay the money for those pins. The point is it's a choice and given the choice I choose not to. Unfortunately Stern is not making a case so far to reverse this decision IMHO based on their direction.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

Yep. Your right we all make choices in life and on the first count that is totally a function of chioce. On point "B)" unfortunately Williams isn't building any NIB games so other than paying a ridiculously inflated price for a Williams still in it's cardboard encasement, NIB hasn't presented itself as a viaible option to me in the last 10 years.

It isn't a function of not willing to pay the money for a pin as evidenced by what I have sunk into pins; it's not willing to pay the money for those pins. The point is it's a choice and given the choice I choose not to. Unfortunately Stern is not making a case so far to reverse this decision IMHO based on their direction.

So your saying, you're not planning on buying a Stern and you currently don't own any Stern's but you still feel the need to b**** about Stern quality?  

So like I said before, you're just bitching to hear your self b**** is that it?

Also, Glenn has a GnR which indirectly IS a Stern. Perhaps if some of their better titles used opto swithes you would be more impressed, Glenn.  

I agree that it is unfortunate that they are thinning down content on the Stern machines but it is clearly evident that higher priced titles will not sustain a pinball factory at the realistic volumes they will sell. Especially so when the ROI for operators is poor and home users are becoming a big chunk of the clientele.

They need to sell a certain number of units to make a machine viable to develope, and higher prices = lower volume. Also, is is more profitable to use generic parts vs. game specific. I wish this was not the case, but the alternative is NO pinball manufacturer. The market is too fragile to take greater risks.Perhaps when the economy is booming for a while that trend will reverse.

I am not an economist (McMean please chime in if you read this), but perhaps someone can articulate better how manufacturers optimize profits. Something like, "profit maximization is achieved when price=marginal cost". Learned that in high school.

Quoted from Vengeance

So your saying, you're not planning on buying a Stern and you currently don't own any Stern's but you still feel the need to b**** about Stern quality?  

So like I said before, you're just bitching to hear your self b**** is that it?

It's not just quality. It's many of their production values. Take a look at a game like MM, Williams was able to create an atmosphere in the game and had the confidence in their talent to invest a lot into development, venture into the area of creating wacky themes with wacky calls and manage to carry it off. There is no question that Williams was slick, so slick they flaunted it in their games. They came up with a theme, developed the entire concept, integrated it extremely well utilizing professional talent, and boldly went about their business. It's what made them fail. They were ballsy and they gave a mess. I used MM for an example but there are numerous other ones that could be used.

I am tired of hearing this accepting attitude where I hear "The voice calls blow" and the Photoshop art looks like a pile of mess but it has good this or that. WTF? Does this not detract from the game anymore in this current one horse town environment? If your going to defend a game then it better be good, not riddled with negative commentary.

Yeah yeah DE -  Stern got it, nothing new move along.... If someone wants this POS Stern and pay the going rate for a Gn'R PM me. Top side of $4K should do it or I will take a decent condition Williams IJ in exchange.

I think if WMS were still making pins today they'd be competing with Stern for licenses, and they'd have gone the same route for the artwork (Photoshop).  That being said, WMS was smart.. they cut their losses (although they were posting hefty profits at the time, strange) and jumped ship to a more profitable market.  They retired the undefeated champ while they still could, realizing that despite their efforts to come up with something fresh and new, Stern (Sega) was still posting similar (and just as shitty) profits.

Video(games) killed the pinball star  

Quoted from Vengeance

You know what's funny to me....

The guys that seem to b**** the most about Stern quality are the ones that either A) don't own any or B) have never even bought a NIB game....

I was basically saying what I feel about the direction i see Stern going,
when you drop 4 or 5k for a product or toy it`s not 50 ,100$ or even 200$ that will stop you to buy it BUT , on the other side you wont buy it if it  looks cheap  ,my opinion
for your info  A) I own a few Stern and B) I also did bought a few  NIB !

DO you ? and did you ?

that direction for Stern I think it`s sad because the home market is bigger than Stern is saying ( my assumption ) and i think they will reduce it or loose it by not keeping a minimum of quality  

just remember the quality of the pinball  " vacation "  
just hoping that is not where they are heading because no more buying new pinball for me

Quoted from pinballjm

I was basically saying what I feel about the direction i see Stern going,
when you drop 4 or 5k for a product or toy it`s not 50 ,100$ or even 200$ that will stop you to buy it BUT , on the other side you wont buy it if it  looks cheap  ,my opinion
for your info  A) I own a few Stern and B) I also did bought a few  NIB !

DO you ? and did you ?

that direction for Stern I think it`s sad because the home market is bigger than Stern is saying ( my assumption ) and i think they will reduce it or loose it by not keeping a minimum of quality  

My comment was more directed at Necro since I know he has no horse in this race, doesn't own any Stern's and doesn't plan to own any Sterns but just likes to hear himself b****.  Of course if you are buying Sterns then you have every right to complain about the quality.

Yes I have 3 Sterns, and 2 have been NIB.

I like MM but overall prefer TSPP, and it's a Stern!

LOTR has a lot of MMs dynamics but Photoshop art and far less personality. FG has tons of personality but lesser dynamics.

SM has great dynamics and no Photoshop.

Holy butcrack Batman! I have no horse but yours apparently wears blinders.