I am thinking about buying a new Stern machine.  I enjoy my LOTR and TSPP so much that I need another to satisfy my craving.  I am considering SM, POTC, or perhaps the new AVATAR.  Perhaps there are others I am missing in my considerations?  At this point I am leaning toward Spiderman.  

So what would you pick and why?  I enjoy a deep rule set, lots of modes and multiball...  Thanks for you opinions.

Trick question right? The obvious answer is SM, by a mile!! (Just came to the computer after playing an epic 400M+ game, what a rush!)

I have not been out playing any new machines since I have been stuck on my LOTR.  So Spiderman is that obvious of a choice?  I was reading some of the reviews and it seemed many of the modes were very much the same.  However I dont think they were reviewing with complete software.  So I take it there are plenty of modes and challenge to it?  Lots of multiball as well?

Quoted from sinpin

I have not been out playing any new machines since I have been stuck on my LOTR.  So Spiderman is that obvious of a choice?  I was reading some of the reviews and it seemed many of the modes were very much the same.  However I dont think they were reviewing with complete software.  So I take it there are plenty of modes and challenge to it?  Lots of multiball as well?

All the modes are different. The initial software had some of them the same. The game is 100% finished, and awesome. There's 6 different multiball modes (Black Suit, Fusion Malfunction, Bank Bust, Armed at the Dock, Battle Royale (mini-wizard mode), and Superhero (Wizard mode)), on top of that you can stack Black Suit with the 3 Doc Ock multiball modes for big points. In addition to trying to play and complete the modes, you're also battling the villains. You need to defeat each of the 4 villains 3 times, and do all the modes before getting to Superhero. It's challenging but not impossible like Valinor.

IMHO, Spider-Man edges out Medieval Madness and TZ as the best DMD style pinball ever (easily the best Stern ever). It's got a great layout, great sound, and amazing rules that draw you in with simplicity but have surprising depth when you look closer. (Don't ask me to explain the 2x and 3x arrow system again)

I'd also recommend SM great game.

SM also. Of all the Stern's I have had in my collection, it is the only one that I enjoy playing regularly. You will be stuck on SM if you end up getting it.

Big Buck Hunter Pro!











































Nah....just joking.   ;D

Spiderman, no question....

SM by a considerable margin ... IM would be next followed by FG and then maybe POTC,I haven't had any time on Avatar yet but I don't see it being ahead of the above

As others have said, Spiderman by a mile. BTW, POTC is no longer being produced so unless you have a lead on a NIB one, you won't find it "new".

Duane

Quoted from SquidVicious

I haven't had any time on Avatar yet but I don't see it being ahead of the above

Good point, none of us have played Avatar. Like you mention, I would be AMAZED if it was better than Spiderman.

Duane

POTC for me I don't mind stop and go play.

Yea I'm on the POTC side.

SM is ok, I just can't seem to get into it, I don't like the feeling the game gives off of not accomplishing anything.  I much prefer POTC to SM, I just have more fun playing it then SM.  

Since two have spoken up for POTC, I'll just add that if you decide to go with Pirates, play it alot before you get it. The game play -- talking rules here -- is good; however it is totally stop and go. That combined with the terrible music and sound effects really leave me flat. I enjoy playing the game literally once or twice when I visit ME, but that's enough for me.

I love the look of the game and the sinking ship...I really, really dig the sinking ship and the multiball where you can add balls by shooting the mix master, but I find the overall game just ok. I'm not constantly engaged by it. Compare POTC gameplay to SM or 24 where you have to be constantly on your toes and paying attention to get a decent score.

Duane

I'd love a Spider-man. BBH and IM are both decent playing pins (except for Starburst's loud, grindy buck) but there's something about SM I really like that I can't shake. Plus I grew up a fan of the comics. I think it would be a worthy replacement for my HS ??). ST:TNG would too. ??) ??) ??)

Quoted from Vengeance

I don't like the feeling the game gives off of not accomplishing anything.

What does that mean?

after playing jonny_eh's spiderman for the first time, as well as tz, lotr and a few others, id have to say siderman is my favorite of the bunch. im thinking of selling off my collection to get one (very hard choice, will probably just save up for a year) i was always skeptical of the title at first, but with the latest software i find its a complete, addictive game.

Yes SM then LOTR and IM  these are still being built so getting a NIB is easy.  FG and TSPP are great games also.

Quoted from jonny_eh

What does that mean?

I've always said that SM is a game you can flail around on and not ever really understand what's going on and still rack up a good score.  

Green Goblin, Sandman and venom always seem to end up running and you're never really sure when they started, how far you are into them or even when they finish (with the exception of sandman because the shield comes back up).  Same thing with the modes, you get a quick intro and sometimes you don't even get that but there is very little fan fare and not much direction on what you are doing.  In the end you never really fell like your accomplishing anything, you don't get the huge fan fare that you get on say something like LOTR where just by the sound queues alone you can tell exactly where you are at any given time in a mode or multiball.  

If money was not an option, I would go for the SM and LOTR but in keeping with my "old school" pins, for that kind of money I would also consider TOTAN and TOM or SS.

I am though very curious to see how the new Avatar pin plays. It looks interesting and I hope to play it at the next SB auction.

Quoted from Vengeance

I've always said that SM is a game you can flail around on and not ever really understand what's going on and still rack up a good score.  

Green Goblin, Sandman and venom always seem to end up running and you're never really sure when they started, how far you are into them or even when they finish (with the exception of sandman because the shield comes back up).  Same thing with the modes, you get a quick intro and sometimes you don't even get that but there is very little fan fare and not much direction on what you are doing.  In the end you never really fell like your accomplishing anything, you don't get the huge fan fare that you get on say something like LOTR where just by the sound queues alone you can tell exactly where you are at any given time in a mode or multiball.  

bizzarely this is a statement that I would expect from me in reference to a game rather than you ... weird. But if you know the ruleset and what the goals are there is little to zero flailing hit the goblin x times depending on mode. Doc Oc 2 times for first mutliball 3 times for second (Bust the bank I think where the ball is captive) 5 for the third after three cycles bump the number by one. Sandman x number hits depending on the level. Venom I believe is 6,8,10 ramps and the last one is only the side ramp. All five mini modes have very specific targets - twin ramps for goblin. 100 Switch hits for Macho Man/Buzzsaw (or whatever he is called). I'd admit that a playfield counter of some sort would be amazing but the same can be said for most modern DMD in my opinion.

Quoted from SquidVicious

bizzarely this is a statement that I would expect from me in reference to a game rather than you ... weird. But if you know the ruleset and what the goals are there is little to zero flailing hit the goblin x times depending on mode. Doc Oc 2 times for first mutliball 3 times for second (Bust the bank I think where the ball is captive) 5 for the third after three cycles bump the number by one. Sandman x number hits depending on the level. Venom I believe is 6,8,10 ramps and the last one is only the side ramp. All five mini modes have very specific targets - twin ramps for goblin. 100 Switch hits for Macho Man/Buzzsaw (or whatever he is called). I'd admit that a playfield counter of some sort would be amazing but the same can be said for most modern DMD in my opinion.

I understand the rules and objectives of each of the items I mentioned.  It's not my understanding that's the problem it the lack of any real change in the game that makes the game feel to me like your not doing anything.  

Since SM is put on the same pedestal as LOTR or TSPP, I always use the comparison of LOTR.  In LOTR you KNOW at any given time what is going on.  The pace of the music quickens, or changes based on the mode, there are queues when you make shots and when you complete modes.  Personally I have yet to find a better feeling then when you get to the end of FOTR Multiball and get "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!!!" it still gives me goosebumps every time!  That feeling of Epicness that LOTR gives you is completely lacking in SM.  There is no defining moment or big fan fare or just one Epic moment, it's all very boring and all very samey to the point you barely feel like your accomplishing anything at all.  

That what I feel is missing from SM, I'm not saying it not fun to play or that the rules aren't deep or that it isn't a good game.  I just feel, for lack of a better word, SM is lacking in Epicness.  

Quoted from Vengeance

I understand the rules and objectives of each of the items I mentioned.  It's not my understanding that's the problem it the lack of any real change in the game that makes the game feel to me like your not doing anything.  

Since SM is put on the same pedestal as LOTR or TSPP, I always use the comparison of LOTR.  In LOTR you KNOW at any given time what is going on.  The pace of the music quickens, or changes based on the mode, there are queues when you make shots and when you complete modes.  Personally I have yet to find a better feeling then when you get to the end of FOTR Multiball and get "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!!!" it still gives me goosebumps every time!  That feeling of Epicness that LOTR gives you is completely lacking in SM.  There is no defining moment or big fan fare or just one Epic moment, it's all very boring and all very samey to the point you barely feel like your accomplishing anything at all.  

That what I feel is missing from SM, I'm not saying it not fun to play or that the rules aren't deep or that it isn't a good game.  I just feel, for lack of a better word, SM is lacking in Epicness.  

Okay that I can understand a bit .. although I would say the fanfare before battle royale is decent (and an accomplishment as it means you have done 2 levels of each of the four villains but not as epic as LOTR) ... I haven't played TSPP enough to see epic in it and I definitely don't know the rule set enough to know the voice calls (but I do know most of the voice calls in SM because I've played that a ton) ... what epic stuff happens in TSPP ?

Quoted from SquidVicious

Okay that I can understand a bit .. although I would say the fanfare before battle royale is decent (and an accomplishment as it means you have done 2 levels of each of the four villains but not as epic as LOTR) ... I haven't played TSPP enough to see epic in it and I definitely don't know the rule set enough to know the voice calls (but I do know most of the voice calls in SM because I've played that a ton) ... what epic stuff happens in TSPP ?

Battle Royale, accomplishment yes, feeling of epciness no.

As for TSPP

Spring Field mystery Spot?
Alien Invasion?
The sheer mind boggling number of things you can stack together
The genius behind the 30 second clock
the funny one liners
The great theme integration
How everything comes together and works perfectly

I wouldn't say it's as Epic as LOTR but there is definitely a better feeling of accomplishment with everything you do in TSPP then there is with SM.

Quoted from Vengeance

Battle Royale, accomplishment yes, feeling of epciness no.

As for TSPP

Spring Field mystery Spot?
Alien Invasion?
The sheer mind boggling number of things you can stack together
The genius behind the 30 second clock
the funny one liners
The great theme integration
How everything comes together and works perfectly

I wouldn't say it's as Epic as LOTR but there is definitely a better feeling of accomplishment with everything you do in TSPP then there is with SM.

That makes more sense .. so to paraphrase ... it is a game with the deepest ruleset ever, that does an great job of integrating the theme into the game (which is a big plus if you are a fan of the show .... unfortunately for me I'm at best meh about of show). I can fully understand the draw to the game and I'd like to get one at some point to get into the deepth of it but as luke warm fan of the show it isn't as epic to me but  I can see where you are coming from.

Quoted from SquidVicious

That makes more sense .. so to paraphrase ... it is a game with the deepest ruleset ever, that does an great job of integrating the theme into the game (which is a big plus if you are a fan of the show .... unfortunately for me I'm at best meh about of show). I can fully understand the draw to the game and I'd like to get one at some point to get into the deepth of it but as luke warm fan of the show it isn't as epic to me but  I can see where you are coming from.

Even if your not a fan of the show Alien Invasion and Springfield mystery spot are two of the most unique and fun mini-wizard modes I've played in all of pinball.  Nothing is as funny as the first time you hit SMS and the flippers switch on you.  Also the uniqueness of having to try and lock 5 balls to complete Alien Invasion is challenging and fun at the same time.  

I didn't even mention Super Dupper Mega Extreme Wizard Mode as I've never achieved it so I have no idea just how awesome it is :P  

Just a note I'm not a fan of the simpsons, I stopped liking it about 10 seasons or more ago but humor like "Worst Ball EVER" is just universal :)

Quoted from Vengeance

Even if your not a fan of the show Alien Invasion and Springfield mystery spot are two of the most unique and fun mini-wizard modes I've played in all of pinball.  Nothing is as funny as the first time you hit SMS and the flippers switch on you.  Also the uniqueness of having to try and lock 5 balls to complete Alien Invasion is challenging and fun at the same time.  

I didn't even mention Super Dupper Mega Extreme Wizard Mode as I've never achieved it so I have no idea just how awesome it is :P  

Just a note I'm not a fan of the simpsons, I stopped liking it about 10 seasons or more ago but humor like "Worst Ball EVER" is just universal :)

point taken and I remember the reverse flipper mode (great idea !) and I do need to get more time on the game.

So, I gather that Adam is suggesting there's a sameness or blending of the modes so not a whole lot stands out. This makes sense as, when playing LOTR, you know when you're doing a mode. I will admit to a certain amount of chimping around with SM as I haven't had hours of playtime on it and don't completely understand the rule set. No modes distinctly stick out in my mind ... but the experience still resonates with me and, obviously, with others for some reason. I want one.

It sounds like a software issue. It would be really neat if this 'issue' could be addresses/improved upon sometime in the future. What would you suggest, Adam, to improve the experience? Would it require stopping the ball flow to better recognize the DMD?

Quoted from OTTOgd

It sounds like a software issue. It would be really neat if this 'issue' could be addresses/improved upon sometime in the future. What would you suggest, Adam, to improve the experience? Would it require stopping the ball flow to better recognize the DMD?

I wouldn't call it an issue, it's more a personal preference.  It's also not about the DMD it's just a feeling.  

Again I'll use LOTR.  When you have a mode running in LOTR, it starts off with a nice intro that you can either skip or watch.  Then the mode starts and it starts with your lit shots and a sound track.  As you progress through the mode making shots the tempo of the music is amped up to give you a sense without even having to look at the display to let you know you getting close to finishing the mode.  Then every mode when completed has as finishing voice clip, song and a total given at the end, and if completed the "a gift from the elves" sound clip letting you know you've now got that queued up and ready as well.  

Spiderman you get a quick 2 second clip from the movie at the start of the mode maybe a slight change in music and a generic noise made when you make a shot.  Nothing letting you know how your progressing through the mode or when you've completed it.  Also when you completed a mode you get to take one shot and double the value of it, but there isn't anything to let you know that's ready other then the flashing lights which can but just as easy to miss because you going to be making shots anyway.  Add in a multiball and there is barely anything to let you know when you've completed something especially when it comes to green goblin or venom so it all starts to blend together.  In LOTR even if you have a mode running during multiball the multiball music takes over for the mode, but the final seconds on the mode are still counted down in voice queues, you still given the audio queue that the mode has ended and that you've been given a gift of the elves.  

I like the feeling of accomplishment when you do something, I prefer being able to keep track of everything from audio queues in combination with inserts on the PF and I find that severely lacking on SM to the point that I need to cradle the ball at time so I can stop what I'm doing and figure out what is running, what I've completed and what I need to start next.  I never really have that problem on any other game they seem  to differentiate between the different aspects of the game that it's easy to keep track of everything.  

Get the Batman TDK. Latest software has it tuned up nicely. I went from hating TDK at the first Canadian pinball championship (and I had no trouble qualifying on it btw, just didnt like it), to really liking it the next year, to loving the latest software version. Awesome and overlooked pin.

Stan

So there's not enough contrast in the voice calls and music, I guess? Cackling Goblin laughter, swishing sand, clicking metal and Venom-ish Venom sounds during the modes that can be layered for stacking and more climactic endings.

Someone contact Lyman/Ritchie to let him know how their awesome game could be improved. Seriously. Why not? Maybe he could make an update. Maybe by the time it happens I will be ready to get one. ;D

Is it worth $240 to add the shaker to SM?  Seems that might add to some of the epicness of the modes?  As long as the shaking is done at key moments in the game, I guess.  Since I am looking at buying NIB perhaps the shaker add on would be a good enhancement?

Quoted from OTTOgd

Someone contact Lyman/Ritchie to let him know how their awesome game could be improved.

I doubt they really care at this point.

Quoted from Sparky

I doubt they really care at this point.

Lyman cares, he's the only reason that the software that has been finished on some of the older titles that has been finished.  Although I think at this point they are done with the title and like I said these are my personal preferences and the reasons why I prefer other games over SM.  But I'm definitely the minority as most people love the game as is.  

Quoted from sinpin

Is it worth $240 to add the shaker to SM?  Seems that might add to some of the epicness of the modes?  As long as the shaking is done at key moments in the game, I guess.  Since I am looking at buying NIB perhaps the shaker add on would be a good enhancement?

I'm personally not a fan of shaker motors, they make sense in some games like Earthshaker and Roadshow but there isn't a modern Stern where I think it could use a shaker motor and the current trend to just add a shaker motor to everything seems silly to me.  

In SM all the modes play a unique voice clip if you finish it (e.g. when you win Save MJ you here JJJ say "Hey isn't that the girl my son is supposed to marry?"). Also, it lites shots for 3x not 2x (2x is when the mode is lit).

But ya, I see your point. Doesn't bother me one bit though. Considering how fast SM plays it makes sense that it's easy to lose track of what's going on at any given time. You can have all 4 villains going (including Doc Ock multiball), plus a mode, plus black suit multiball. Now that's stacking!!

Sure, SM isn't as epic as LOTR, but it's more care-free and "fun" (in terms of attitude). Different styles, both valid. Although the Super Jackpot sounds for Dock Ock (especially Bank Bust) and the Super Jackpot sound for Black Suit Multiball (Church bells) are pretty cool, but ya, it's no Gandalph. You just can't beat the LOTR movies for awesome quotes.

Quoted from jonny_eh

You can have all 4 villains going (including Doc Ock multiball), plus a mode, plus black suit multiball. Now that's stacking!!

Sorry jonny but TSPP is the king of stacking, SM doesn't even hold a candle to the stacking opportunities available in TSPP

Quoted from jonny_eh

...

You just can't beat the LOTR movies for awesome quotes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odUt8s4FLO8

Quoted from Vengeance

Sorry jonny but TSPP is the king of stacking, SM doesn't even hold a candle to the stacking opportunities available in TSPP

I know, but that's not available NIB, and sinpin already owns it. What was the point of this thread again?

Quoted from jonny_eh

I know, but that's not available NIB, and sinpin already owns it. What was the point of this thread again?

Pizza!

There's a neat thread on RGP about: Spiderman - Essential Accessories and Enhancements
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.pinball/browse_thread/thread/624b3975f2f2e77c/cf6b217e29137489?

Quoted from Vengeance

I'm personally not a fan of shaker motors, they make sense in some games like Earthshaker and Roadshow but there isn't a modern Stern where I think it could use a shaker motor and the current trend to just add a shaker motor to everything seems silly to me.  

I think the shaker motor works really well in Spiderman. After playing ME's black Spiderman for so long, I know find myself missing the shaker. Going to add that sometime.

Duane

Quoted from TwilightZone

I think the shaker motor works really well in Spiderman. After playing ME's black Spiderman for so long, I know find myself missing the shaker. Going to add that sometime.

Duane

I have one ready to install. Was going to install it tonight but Halo: Reach just came out. Argh!

Quoted from Vengeance

I've always said that SM is a game you can flail around on and not ever really understand what's going on and still rack up a good score.  

OK, THAT totally explains why I got good score on it at Nick's one time then....and here I thought I was actually getting better at pinball...  :'(

Quoted from jonny_eh

I have one ready to install. Was going to install it tonight but Halo: Reach just came out. Argh!

glad to hear you got one ... I'm going to make a second attempt to pick one up at Pinlife during Expo ...

I like the shaker motor in games.  The Monger in IM coming out of the hole is great, or when you hit a target. SM with Doc Ock.  If you played a game with it and then played it with out, you will miss it.  I would like to play a LOTR gold with one just to see how it works with gameplay.

Quoted from Vengeance

I wouldn't call it an issue, it's more a personal preference.  It's also not about the DMD it's just a feeling.  

Like when you hit Borg multiball or Warp 9 on STTNG  :)  Total rush..

So if I buy the shaker for SM at $240 (price seems right?) I have been told it is very easy to install myself in SM.  Does this mean that it would also be very easy to remove from SM and install in my LOTR.

I know I am getting more into technical talk but if I can buy the shaker and have the option to put it inside any new Stern that would be cool too...

I think I am sold on SM.  Just need to decide to Shake or not to Shake...

Quoted from sinpin

So if I buy the shaker for SM at $240 (price seems right?) I have been told it is very easy to install myself in SM.  Does this mean that it would also be very easy to remove from SM and install in my LOTR.

I know I am getting more into technical talk but if I can buy the shaker and have the option to put it inside any new Stern that would be cool too...

I think I am sold on SM.  Just need to decide to Shake or not to Shake...

Oh I just realized that the original LOTR does not have the shaker code built into it so I am assuming that is a NO GO for the Shaker.  So the price from Playdium for the shaker is $240 yet Pinball life has them for $170...  Why such a difference?  Since buying my machine at Playdium it makes sense to buy it from them but $70 more???

chances are the shipping (weight) and exchange rate would make the prices pretty much even.

As for LOTR, apparently the UK code supports the shaker.. the world is just waiting for someone to step up and crack the code  ;D

I have both LOTR LE and SM. In my books, even though LOTR is an awsome game, SM is the better of the two. One hell of game period. If you enjoy pinball, SM should be on the top of your wish list. TSPP is on my radar!

Go for the shaker, you will not regret it. Very, very easy to install on SM.

These are my recent stern picks  8)



Still missing a few I want, tspp, Elvis and possibly IM.

one day i will have a LOTR, for sure!

I put a shaker on my Spidey! Very easy install, and totally changed the game for me. $240 seems a bit pricey for the size of the thing, but I don't regret it at all!

Shake it Baybeee!!!

Quoted from machine.slave

Like when you hit Borg multiball or Warp 9 on STTNG  :)  Total rush..

Rub it in....  :B

Quoted from mark

These are my recent stern picks  8)



Still missing a few I want, tspp, Elvis and possibly IM.

When your ADD kicks in again, let me know I want the POTC :)  

Quoted from sinpin

Oh I just realized that the original LOTR does not have the shaker code built into it so I am assuming that is a NO GO for the Shaker.  So the price from Playdium for the shaker is $240 yet Pinball life has them for $170...  Why such a difference?  Since buying my machine at Playdium it makes sense to buy it from them but $70 more???

That difference has existed for quite awhile ... I'm grabbing one from Pinlife at Expo

Quoted from machine.slave

chances are the shipping (weight) and exchange rate would make the prices pretty much even.

I split an order with sens freak and I think I ended up paying just over $200 CAD total, and that included some other parts.

Playdium agreed that since I am buying Spiderman from them NIB they would sell me the Shaker for $200...  works for me!

This is my first time dealing with them but they seem very easy to deal with and willing to accomodate me with all my requests (to my door shipping, etc)

Quoted from sinpin

Playdium agreed that since I am buying Spiderman from them NIB they would sell me the Shaker for $200...  works for me!

This is my first time dealing with them but they seem very easy to deal with and willing to accomodate me with all my requests (to my door shipping, etc)

That's cool ... they seem to be warming up to the collector community